It is amazing that those who believe in a two state solution think that once there are separate countries, all will be rosy and life will be good in the Middle East. Do they not understand what is really occurring in this region or are they just wishful, unthinking, uninformed pawns. The latter descriptor is my impression.
Whether it is President Obama or Hillary Clinton or my neighbor down the street, the impression one gets from these "two staters" is that somehow the magic of getting their own country will terminate the terrorists from fomenting terror. This could not be further from the truth or shall we say reality.
Those who hate Israel and by extension the United States will never rest until they control the entire region. They feel it is their right, their time to control the world and no country or agreement will stand in their way. If you want them to sign, they will but with the full intention of ignoring anything that does not promote their goal.
We, in the West, view a document as our word, our bond. We sign and the presumption is that all parties who agreed to it will follow through. In the Middle East that is not the way it is. You give your word as long as it is in your best interests, however, when that changes, you are allowed to change. It is like standing on shifting sands.
On top of that mindset, you add the indoctrination the peoples of the Middle East have had since 1947 against the State of Israel, one should not be surprised to find that the vast majority (see following article) are not in favor of the two state solution. How in bloody hell is a peace to be established when one party is sworn to destroy the other? To sign a peace with this background is to sign your death certificate.
Just like Afghanistan has be the deathbed of many great countries, the Middle East is also. For the United States to support anyone but the only democracy in the region would say the our enemies that it is not good to be America's friend. We might not agree with all that Israel does (do we agree with all the United States does?) but their citizens are free, can vote in fair elections, and are prosperous (even Arabs.) Why would we support regimes where their citizens are not free, cannot vote and are poor? Makes no sense to me.
The following article published a week ago speaks to the poll on the two state solution. It is interesting reading.
6 in 10 Palestinians reject 2-state solution, survey finds By GIL HOFFMAN
07/15/2011 04:26
Whether it is President Obama or Hillary Clinton or my neighbor down the street, the impression one gets from these "two staters" is that somehow the magic of getting their own country will terminate the terrorists from fomenting terror. This could not be further from the truth or shall we say reality.
Those who hate Israel and by extension the United States will never rest until they control the entire region. They feel it is their right, their time to control the world and no country or agreement will stand in their way. If you want them to sign, they will but with the full intention of ignoring anything that does not promote their goal.
We, in the West, view a document as our word, our bond. We sign and the presumption is that all parties who agreed to it will follow through. In the Middle East that is not the way it is. You give your word as long as it is in your best interests, however, when that changes, you are allowed to change. It is like standing on shifting sands.
On top of that mindset, you add the indoctrination the peoples of the Middle East have had since 1947 against the State of Israel, one should not be surprised to find that the vast majority (see following article) are not in favor of the two state solution. How in bloody hell is a peace to be established when one party is sworn to destroy the other? To sign a peace with this background is to sign your death certificate.
Just like Afghanistan has be the deathbed of many great countries, the Middle East is also. For the United States to support anyone but the only democracy in the region would say the our enemies that it is not good to be America's friend. We might not agree with all that Israel does (do we agree with all the United States does?) but their citizens are free, can vote in fair elections, and are prosperous (even Arabs.) Why would we support regimes where their citizens are not free, cannot vote and are poor? Makes no sense to me.
The following article published a week ago speaks to the poll on the two state solution. It is interesting reading.
6 in 10 Palestinians reject 2-state solution, survey finds By GIL HOFFMAN
07/15/2011 04:26
Only one in three Palestinians (34 percent) accepts two states for two peoples as the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, according to an intensive, face-to-face survey in Arabic of 1,010 Palestinian adults in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip completed this week by American pollster Stanley Greenberg.
The poll, which has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, was conducted in partnership with the Beit Sahour-based Palestinian Center for Public Opinion and sponsored by the Israel Project, an international nonprofit organization that provides journalists and leaders with information about the Middle East.
The Israel Project is trying to reach out to the Arab world to promote “people-to-people peace.” The poll appears to indicate that the organization has a difficult task ahead.
Respondents were asked about US President Barack Obama’s statement that “there should be two states: Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people and Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people.”
Just 34% said they accepted that concept, while 61% rejected it.
Sixty-six percent said the Palestinians’ real goal should be to start with a two-state solution but then move to it all being one Palestinian state.
Asked about the fate of Jerusalem, 92% said it should be the capital of Palestine, 1% said the capital of Israel, 3% the capital of both, and 4% a neutral international city.
Seventy-two percent backed denying the thousands of years of Jewish history in Jerusalem, 62% supported kidnapping IDF soldiers and holding them hostage, and 53% were in favor or teaching songs about hating Jews in Palestinian schools.
When given a quote from the Hamas Charter about the need for battalions from the Arab and Islamic world to defeat the Jews, 80% agreed. Seventy-three percent agreed with a quote from the charter (and a hadith, or tradition ascribed to the prophet Muhammad) about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones and trees.
But only 45% said they believed in the charter’s statement that the only solution to the Palestinian problem was jihad.
The survey’s more positive findings included that only 22% supported firing rockets at Israeli cities and citizens and that two-thirds preferred diplomatic engagement over violent “resistance.”
Among Palestinians in general 65% preferred talks and 20% violence. In the West Bank it was 69-28%, and in Gaza, 59- 32%.
Asked whether they backed seeking a Palestinian state unilaterally in the UN, 64% said yes. The number was 57% in the West Bank and 79% in Gaza. Thirty-seven percent said the UN action would bring a Palestinian state closer, 16% said it would set back the establishment of a state, and 44% said it would make no difference.
Israel Project president Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi said she was encouraged that the Arab Spring would bring more accuracy to Arab media and by the 59% of Palestinians who are on Facebook. The Israel Project has 80,723 friends for its Arabic site, which has had 9.5 million page views in two months.
“Some of the numbers in the poll are discouraging, but we are trying to change them,” she said at a Jerusalem press conference in which Greenberg presented the findings.
Greenberg said the survey proved that there was a big need for public education and leadership on the Palestinian side.
Greenberg and Laszlo Mizrahi have presented the findings to President Shimon Peres, opposition leader Tzipi Livni, Vice Premier Moshe Ya’alon and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s senior adviser, Ron Dermer.
Next week, they have meetings scheduled in the White House and the Pentagon.
Israeli leaders told Greenberg and Laszlo Mizrahi they were encouraged by Palestinian support for talks.
The poll, which has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, was conducted in partnership with the Beit Sahour-based Palestinian Center for Public Opinion and sponsored by the Israel Project, an international nonprofit organization that provides journalists and leaders with information about the Middle East.
The Israel Project is trying to reach out to the Arab world to promote “people-to-people peace.” The poll appears to indicate that the organization has a difficult task ahead.
Respondents were asked about US President Barack Obama’s statement that “there should be two states: Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people and Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people.”
Just 34% said they accepted that concept, while 61% rejected it.
Sixty-six percent said the Palestinians’ real goal should be to start with a two-state solution but then move to it all being one Palestinian state.
Asked about the fate of Jerusalem, 92% said it should be the capital of Palestine, 1% said the capital of Israel, 3% the capital of both, and 4% a neutral international city.
Seventy-two percent backed denying the thousands of years of Jewish history in Jerusalem, 62% supported kidnapping IDF soldiers and holding them hostage, and 53% were in favor or teaching songs about hating Jews in Palestinian schools.
When given a quote from the Hamas Charter about the need for battalions from the Arab and Islamic world to defeat the Jews, 80% agreed. Seventy-three percent agreed with a quote from the charter (and a hadith, or tradition ascribed to the prophet Muhammad) about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones and trees.
But only 45% said they believed in the charter’s statement that the only solution to the Palestinian problem was jihad.
The survey’s more positive findings included that only 22% supported firing rockets at Israeli cities and citizens and that two-thirds preferred diplomatic engagement over violent “resistance.”
Among Palestinians in general 65% preferred talks and 20% violence. In the West Bank it was 69-28%, and in Gaza, 59- 32%.
Asked whether they backed seeking a Palestinian state unilaterally in the UN, 64% said yes. The number was 57% in the West Bank and 79% in Gaza. Thirty-seven percent said the UN action would bring a Palestinian state closer, 16% said it would set back the establishment of a state, and 44% said it would make no difference.
Israel Project president Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi said she was encouraged that the Arab Spring would bring more accuracy to Arab media and by the 59% of Palestinians who are on Facebook. The Israel Project has 80,723 friends for its Arabic site, which has had 9.5 million page views in two months.
“Some of the numbers in the poll are discouraging, but we are trying to change them,” she said at a Jerusalem press conference in which Greenberg presented the findings.
Greenberg said the survey proved that there was a big need for public education and leadership on the Palestinian side.
Greenberg and Laszlo Mizrahi have presented the findings to President Shimon Peres, opposition leader Tzipi Livni, Vice Premier Moshe Ya’alon and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s senior adviser, Ron Dermer.
Next week, they have meetings scheduled in the White House and the Pentagon.
Israeli leaders told Greenberg and Laszlo Mizrahi they were encouraged by Palestinian support for talks.
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