Democracy Project Triumph: Islamists Surge Ahead in Egyptian Elections
Andrew C. McCarthy - National Review Online, December 1st, 2011
It would be hard to overstate what a catastrophe the Egyptian elections are shaping into. Reports about stage one of the long process show not only that the Muslim Brotherhood may be getting over 50 percent of the vote; an even more extreme Islamist party — called “Nour” — is apparently getting between 10 and 15 percent.
In a bit of sleight-of-hand I’ve noted before, the media describes as “Salafists” the elements that are even more extreme Islamists than the MB. This is a device to help the Obama administration’s assiduous campaign to airbrush the Brotherhood into a “moderate” organization — one that National Intelligence Director James Clapper so memorably (and ludicrously) described as “largely secular.”
Do not be deceived. The MB is itself a Salafist organization. Salafism is a retro-refom movement that seeks to return Muslims to what is seen as the pure Islam of the founding generations (the Salafiyyah — the “righteous companions” of Mohammed). MB founder Hassan al-Banna was a Salafist. So was Sayyid Qutb — the most important MB theorist of the second half of the 20th Century. So is the MB’s leading sharia jurist in modern times, Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi (despite efforts by his delusional Western fans to portray him as a modernizing reformer). The difference between MB Salafists and more extreme Salafists (like the difference between the MB and al-Qaeda) is much more about methodology than ideology). It is akin to the difference between Saul Alinksy organizers and the New Left radicals of the ’60s and ’70s. The MB has always believed in working with (and penetrating) government, and boring into society’s institutions, in order to Islamize society gradually. More extreme Salafists reject secular society and refuse to interact with its government — on the theory that such interaction corrupts them while legitimizing the secular government. But the goal of both sides is precisely the same: to install sharia law as the foundation for Islamizing the society.
The fact that Islamists even more extreme than the MB are not only participating but winning substantial seats in the election is a disaster on at least three counts. First, it demonstrates yet again the weakness of the secular democrats who have been portrayed, fraudulently, as the dynamic force of the “Arab Spring.” Second, it will push the dominant MB into an even more aggressively Islamist posture. Third, it will have the perverse effect of helping the Obama administration and Western Islamophiles continue to portray the MB as comparatively moderate. Of course, the Brothers are only ostensibly moderate in comparison to Nour (with whom they’ll be delighted to collaborate) — objectively speaking, they are virulently anti-American, anti-Western, and anti-Israeli (indeed, anti-Semitic).
The Islamist ascendancy in Egypt, enabled by the West’s democracy fetishists and its Leftist allies of the MB, will have immediate disastrous consequences — in the imminent drafting of the new Egyptian constitution; in the eventual Egyptian presidential election next year; in overcoming the Egyptian military’s half-hearted attempts to stem the Islamist tide; in the deteriorating security of 8 million Coptic Christians (about 10 percent of the population); in a radically new and more threatening Islamist threat to Israel on a long border it has not had to worry about for the last 30 years; and in ensuring (in cahoots with Islamist Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Erdogan, a longtime MB intimate) that the Brotherhood will take over Syria when Assad falls — probably sooner rather than later.
Who could have predicted such a grand jihad?
You write, "Sharia Law is not compatible with women's rights, gay and lesbian rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly and the Constitution. Until the world realizes this, all of our freedoms are in danger."
ReplyDeleteHow does Egypt adopting Sharia Law restrict your First Amendment rights in the United States? It doesn't.
If they start a war with their neighbors, they are subject to the same treatment Saddam Hussein received.
Until then, their internal affairs are their business -- not ours. Do you agree, or not?
--David
What if their neighbors invite them in, does that change your stand?
ReplyDeleteNo. That is like the difference between me inviting you into my home compared to you kicking down my door and entering by force. We invite foreigners into our country all the time (exchange students, diplomats, immigrants, visiting scholars, etc.). And I shouldn't need to remind you that we have military bases in foreign countries all over the world. Vote Ron Paul.
ReplyDeleteI answered your question. Please answer mine.
--David
David, my point is that today your rights are not threatened, however, in the future with Sharia law becoming co-equal with constitutional/common law, your rights to say and do what you want are threatened. Already that is the case in France where a Muslim can ask to have his case tried in a Sharia court where a non-muslim loses.
ReplyDeleteAlready in the United States there has been limited success in getting Sharia law accepted as an alternative, however, 20 years ago, it would have been unthinkable.
Some time in the future, we could have co-equal legal systems unless there is a stop placed in front of the movements.
In Dallas, a physician did an "honor killing" of his daughters. His defense, religious freedom as this type of act is allowed under Sharia law. He did not get off, but how long will it be before a similar case gets ruled entirely differently.
So when you ask me is there a threat, I say definitely.
Regarding being invited verses "kicking down the door", we have millions of illegal immigrants who were not invited into this country, a number of these are Muslims. (Most are hispanic.) Lets say 250,000 come each year who are Muslims, uninvited or who overstay their student or tourist visa. In ten years that is 2,500,000 plus any births that might have occurred. Are they not kicking down our doors?
Your question was regarding internal affairs verses kicking down the door. I agree that as long as it is internal, we have limited concerns, however, with the spread of Islam, it does not stay internal. Look at who has supported those fighting us and the Iraqis, it is funded and manned by Iranians. No longer an internal issue.
Also when Egypt allows Al Queda and Hamas to send rockets into Israel from Sinai or to bring armaments through the Sinai, that is not longer an internal issue.
It does not effect the United States, but it will so we need to be very viligant.
You have several points here, so I will address them separately…
ReplyDelete1. Already that is the case in France where a Muslim can ask to have his case tried in a Sharia court where a non-muslim loses. If France wants to have that law, that is their business.
2. Already in the United States there has been limited success in getting Sharia law accepted as an alternative, however, 20 years ago, it would have been unthinkable. That is our business, and it can be addressed in the courts as unconstitutional.
3. Some time in the future, we could have co-equal legal systems unless there is a stop placed in front of the movements. Of course, that is possible. Laws are established in the United States by democratically elected representatives. The people can "place a stop" to laws they don't want by electing representatives to repeal them. Are you suggesting the use of violence to "place a stop" on movements in this country to enact legislation with which you do not agree?
4. Regarding being invited verses "kicking down the door", we have millions of illegal immigrants who were not invited into this country, a number of these are Muslims. (Most are hispanic.) Every country must secure its own borders against illegal immigration and deport illegals. They are, in fact, kicking the door down and should be expelled. However, they are not U.S. citizens and cannot vote in our elections. Mexicans are 90% Roman Catholic and 5% Protestant. There may be a tiny number of Mexican Muslims, but you are making a proverbial mountain out of a mole hill here.
5. Your question was regarding internal affairs verses kicking down the door. I agree that as long as it is internal, we have limited concerns… We have no right to interfere with the internal affairs of other countries. The question what about rights, not concerns. If you have concerns, you put a military force on their border. You don't invade their country. That was my question, and I didn't quite get a direct answer from you.
6. Look at who has supported those fighting us and the Iraqis, it is funded and manned by Iranians. No longer an internal issue. I am with Ron Paul all the way on this issue. Iraq did not attack the U.S. The U.S. attacked Iraq. The Congress abdicated its responsibility under the Constitution. We set up a Shiite government in Iraq. Any idiot could have seen that Iran would support their Shiite brethren in this conflict. The Shiite political leaders in Iraq and their Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani were living in Iran as exiles during Saddam's regime. We created this situation ourselves by replacing a secular dictator with a Shiite government with strong ties to Iran. This is similar to the Egyptians replacing their military dictator with an Islamic government.
7. Also when Egypt allows Al Queda and Hamas to send rockets into Israel from Sinai or to bring armaments through the Sinai, that is not longer an internal issue. That is correct, and Israel is justified in responding with an appropriate level of force when attacked. Libertarians are not pacifists. We are non-interventionists. That's an important distinction.
--David
David, my responses are as follows:
ReplyDelete1. Islam is insidious like carbon monoxide, it creeps in and before you know it, it has taken over. It must be stopped before it takes over. France has had to outlaw full cover burkas but it still allows Muslims to stop traffic and block streets at prayer time.
2. Once Muslims get their "rights", it would be deemed anti-muslim and Constitutional to take them away!
3. Sure, chop off their heads if I don't agree with them! I am joking as that is what they do in Islamic countries, not America.
4. Muslims are NOT Mexicans. Can you tell me how many Muslims are in this country? You need to visit Dearborn, MI, Christians are NOT allowed to distribute pro-Christian pamphlets on the streets as it is anti Muslim. In fact, they have been arrested!
5. I thought that I had answered your question. But let me ask another, based on your statements, we should have not declared war against Germany and Italy as they did not attack us in WWII?
6. I agree that we probably should have not gone into Iraq as they did not attack us, however, Congress did approve the invasion based on the world's (France, Germany, England to name only three) intelligence services belief that he had certain materials. We did not find any but my belief is that sometime in the future we will find that those materials were moved to Syria! If we had had better intelligence, we would have known where the materials had gone.
7. We find common ground!
Actually, I can answer your question, because there was a recent study done. Muslims are 0.6% of the U.S. population.
ReplyDeleteI think we both understand each other on foreign policy. I support the Libertarian position, and you support the neocon worldview.
I am ready to change the subject. While you are fretting over Islam, the U.S. Senate just passed an absolutely horrendous bill (S. 1867) over the strenuous objections of Rand Paul (probably the only Libertarian in the Senate). It establishes the legal basis for a police state in our country where U.S. citizens can be arrested and detaining indefinitely (like "enemy combatants") without the right of habeas corpus, speedy trial, and all related constitutional protections….
http://endthelie.com/2011/11/30/do-not-be-deceived-s-1867-is-the-most-dangerous-bill-since-the-patriot-act/#axzz1fUPzFNvg
The text...
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1867es/pdf/BILLS-112s1867es.pdf
This merits attention on this blog, since I consider you a fellow strict constitutionalist on most issues.
--David
Glad we can move on! I have a very big problem with the government killing any foreign leader i.e. Osama bin Ladin. He should have been captured and tried, not killed.
ReplyDeleteIt sets up a very bad precedent when we go after foreign leaders and execute them without a trial. What happens when America is no longer "the big dog" and our leaders are charged with crimes? Will we be happy? I doubt it!
I was not in favor of the original Patriot Act nor the Obama renewal. It takes away rights and does not protect us. Anytime we reduce our rights, it brings us closer to a time when a despot could abuse us and we could not respond.
I don't second-guess killing bin Laden on sight, unless he was stripped naked and face-down on the floor. The Navy Seals had no way of knowing whether he had a suicide vest and could have blown up the room.
ReplyDeleteThe original Patriot Act was horrible, but this version is even worse. If their secret panel decides that you are a "terrorist", you can be in jail without charges or a trial. They are preparing for revolution in my opinion. All these hundreds of arrests of peaceful protesters is a precursor. A city mayor can issue an ordinance that unconstitutionally denies your First Amendment rights to assembly and free speech, and then send out riot police (in the absence of any real riot) to round up scores of people who are in the streets creating a public relations problem for the Wall Street banks. I may soon become one of those arrested! (Just alerting you in case I mysterious disappear some day.).
Obama says he will veto this S. 1867 bill if it comes to him in this form. I will believe it when I see it.
--David
I disagree with you on the Osama issue.Yes, it is possible that he had a vest, however, from the surprise, I would have doubted it. The authority was to kill on sight!
ReplyDeleteIf you are right about S.1867, Obama will not veto, as this is the he wants. I believe there is a chance there will be no elections in 2012, especially if he is running behind in the polls. Would not a riot be a great excuse!
Fact-checking…
ReplyDelete"Congress responded after the 9/11 attacks with passage of the 2001 Authorization to use Military Force. The measure empowers the president to “use all necessary and appropriate force” against nations, organizations, or individuals who played a role in the 9/11 attacks. The law was written specifically with bin Laden in mind.
In addition, Presidents Bush and Obama signed secret executive orders authorizing kill-or-capture missions by the Central Intelligence Agency and the military’s special forces."
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2011/0502/Was-it-legal-for-the-US-commandos-to-kill-Osama-bin-Laden
The executive order was "kill-or-capture," not "kill-on-sight."
Besides, according to all these law professors bin Laden was a legitimate "military target" under international law (meaning he can be shot on sight with or without the executive order).
----------
Did you ever read Executive Order 51? See here….
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/05/12/333793/-Presidential-Directive-51:-Blueprint-for-Dictatorship
Combine S.1867 with Executive Order 51, and the president of the United States has the authority to become a functional dictatorship by declaring a "catastrophic emergency", and suspend elections until HE decides that the "emergency" has passed, and then use S.1867 to lock up 50,000 protesters indefinitely without a trial (Guantanamo right here at home).
These are the kinds of things that get almost no exposure on the national media.
--David
I think that S.1867 will be used in October 2012. I have been concerned with this since early 2009 when I thought he would dispense with elections so that he could maintain his control of Congress. He did not do it then but if he feels that he will not get re-elected or completely lose the Congress, he might.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that the Daily Kos thought that with Bush and it did not occur. It was obvious to me that he would not have done that but Obammy will.
Check out this commentary on the intentional "killing" of Osama. It is: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/110802/osama-bin-laden-seals-shoot-pakistan-al-qaeda
ReplyDeleteReports from the Seals I have read over the past months indicate that Osama was not even armed, so it was an assasination, as there was no intent on taking him captive. The initial reports were that there was a 40 minute fire fight. Now we find out that the operation was significantly less time, like 5 minutes.
Additionally, we lost very valuable technology with the helicopter crashing. The operation reminds me of the Jimmy Carter failed rescue mission against Iran.
By the way, what evidence do we have is there that it really was Osama? No pictures, no DNA, no body, a rapid funeral at sea. Sounds a bit sketchy.
Combine that with the evidence we know about Congress and the lies, deceptions that we have experienced lately, I doubt everything first. Doubt and then verify.
Just to clarify, it is Executive Order 51 that would allow the president to suspended elections indefinitely in case of a "catastrophic emergency."
ReplyDeleteThe *only* thing S.1867 does is allow the government to lock up American citizens indefinitely without rights to habeas corpus or a trial.
As I said, when you add these two things together you get police state authority.
Osama bin Laden is dead. They matched his DNA and did other tests. The people who believe what you are suggesting are probably some of the same people who think the president was born in Africa.
--David
David, the reports of DNA testing and "other tests"were not released. There was no independent verification. Obama can say anything but that does not make it true.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, until Obama releases his school records (transcripts, applications, articles written) I will still believe that a) he was born in Africa 2)he applied for college as a "foreign student" with a foreign citizenship and 3) he is not elegible to be President.
Sorry David, I find it very concerning that Obama has spend millions preventing us from seeing his records and that makes me suspicious.