There are those who believe in fairy tales and for them, ObamaCrapCare (our name for the Affordable Care Act aka Obama Care) will let them sleep at night, however for the rest of us, it will scare us to death. We have attached an executive summary of the Indiana Insurance Exchange.
When you look at the bottom line in Indiana, premiums will go up significantly for those people who are contributors and will go down significantly for those who are not. Young men's premiums will go up due to having to provide them maternity care. Older people will be subsidized by younger individuals.
What was amazing to us was the cost of individual cost for the average Indianan. These premiums approach $10,000 per year which is over $800 per month. That far exceeds what could be purchased on the free market today.
We suspect that many young people will forgo getting insurance due to its cost and accept the small tax hit, especially in the first year. Even in the third year, the tax hit is only $600 which equates to $50 per month, far below the premium they would have to pay.
ObamaCrapCare will drive doctors out of the business, decrease the amount of time a doctor can spend with his patients as they will have to see more patients and will drive up the costs to everyone except the Congress, which does not come under this failed policy. ObamaCrapCare should be aborted--this is one time we believe in abortion!
Conservative Tom
Here is the link to the Indiana article: http://www.in.gov/aca/files/Individual_Market_Premium_Rate_Change_Variability_under_the_ACA_Final.pdf
When you look at the bottom line in Indiana, premiums will go up significantly for those people who are contributors and will go down significantly for those who are not. Young men's premiums will go up due to having to provide them maternity care. Older people will be subsidized by younger individuals.
What was amazing to us was the cost of individual cost for the average Indianan. These premiums approach $10,000 per year which is over $800 per month. That far exceeds what could be purchased on the free market today.
We suspect that many young people will forgo getting insurance due to its cost and accept the small tax hit, especially in the first year. Even in the third year, the tax hit is only $600 which equates to $50 per month, far below the premium they would have to pay.
ObamaCrapCare will drive doctors out of the business, decrease the amount of time a doctor can spend with his patients as they will have to see more patients and will drive up the costs to everyone except the Congress, which does not come under this failed policy. ObamaCrapCare should be aborted--this is one time we believe in abortion!
Conservative Tom
Here is the link to the Indiana article: http://www.in.gov/aca/files/Individual_Market_Premium_Rate_Change_Variability_under_the_ACA_Final.pdf
"For individuals with poor current health status in the ICHIA program, the ACA will result in substantial out-ofpocket premium decreases for the vast majority of individuals at all income levels as illustrated in Figure 8."
ReplyDeletehttp://www.in.gov/aca/files/Individual_Market_Premium_Rate_Change_Variability_under_the_ACA_Final.pdf
Below the graph, it continues….
"In addition to substantial out-of-pocket premium reductions, the plans offered through the insurance exchange will provide a higher level of covered benefits for many individuals currently enrolled in the ICHIA program. This may result in a significant decrease in cost sharing expenses for individuals currently enrolled in high deductible health plans. For example, for a 55 year-old male at 150% FPL, current ICHIA premiums are $9,500 and $10,100 annually for a $5,000 deductible and $2,500 deductible policy, respectively. With the implementation of the adjusted community rating rules and the premium tax credit subsidy, the individual’s out-of-pocket premiums may decrease to only $700. The new policy will also cover a significantly higher share of the individual’s health care expenses, as the individual will be eligible for cost sharing subsidies that may be equivalent to a $500 deductible policy. For low income participants in the ICHIA program, many may experience a reduction in annual health care expenses (premium and cost sharing) between $5,000 and $10,000. Many individuals, particularly those 50 and older, that are currently uninsured because of unaffordable premium rate levels in the ICHIA program will have substantially less expensive out-of-pocket premium rates and will likely enter the individual insurance market (excluding households that are Medicaid eligible). "
Conclusion: For millions of uninsured sick people, Obamacare will be like a gift from heaven, not just because health insurance will finally become affordable to them, but also because they can get a higher level of benefits.
You can't dismiss my source here, since this is a link YOU posted! Beautiful.
--David
ReplyDeleteThe irony that you miss, David, is, what poor person can afford a deductible of $5000? or $2500? They still have to pay the premiums, so where do they come up with the money?
The whole plan will NOT work.
http://eba.benefitnews.com/news/state-of-union-fact-check-ppaca-slowing-health-care-cost-growth-2730857-1.html?ET=ebabenefitnews:e6195:2489823a:&st=email&utm_source=editorial&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EBA_inBrief_021313
ReplyDeleteMan, you are a moving target! Now that you have lost your argument that uninsured sick people will not save lots of money on premiums under ACA, you have switched horses to deductibles. Okay.
ReplyDeleteFrom Kaiser….
"Coverage provided to the lowest-income enrollees in Exchanges would require considerably less patient cost-sharing than for the standard bronze or sliver plans. For those with family income up to 150% of the poverty level (now $33,525 for a family of four and $16,335 for an individual), the estimated per person deductible ranges from $0 with 8% coinsurance to $200 with 5% coinsurance (plan I). Out-of-pocket costs under the law would be capped at $2,100 for these enrollees in 2014. (Note that people with incomes up to 133% of the poverty level would be covered under the Medicaid program.) However, cost-sharing could be substantial for others with modest incomes eligible to receive subsidies. For example, for those with family income greater than 200% and up to 250% of the poverty level ($44,700 to $55,875 for a family of four), estimated per person deductibles range from $1,750 to $3,200, and family deductibles would be twice those amounts (plan E)."
In addition to the cost-sharing subsidies low-income persons receive to help with the deductibles, the ACA provides for preventive health services with zero cost-sharing required.
I am not saying this is going to work perfectly for everyone in any situation, but, for currently uninsured, sick, poor people, the ACA exchanges are infinitely more affordable than what they would have to pay a for-profit insurance company for coverage. ACA should be measured against the horrendously expensive system it is replacing, especially for those 5% of patients who now consume 65% of medical services in this country. If you don't see anything wrong with that picture, it's time to adjust the old glasses.
--David
I don't follow your assumption that people will not save money due to ACA. I was making another point. People who are sick will not save money, they will not be able to afford ObamaCrapCare.
ReplyDeleteWe heard the same canard regarding preventative care reducing costs when HMOs started. Did it work. NO! It won't work here also.
Those 5% will still consume 65% of medical services, it will just cost taxpayers more.
ObamaCrapCare will reduce the quality of care due to the reduction of doctors and the increased number of patients
seeking care. That is a recipe for disaster. Doctors will have less time to really find out what your condition is and the result will be more medical "mistakes".
Older people will be asked to take take a pill and go to the "soylent green plant."
Keep cheering for the disaster to come.
I have given you the projected premiums and deductible plans and cost-sharing subsidies. This is designed to make healthcare affordable for 90%+ of Americans. Other countries all over the world do it, so why can't the richest country in the world also do it? The main thing holding us back relative to the rest of the world is that they don't allow the for-profit insurance companies to run wild with profits and exclude sick people from coverage. ACA will, to some extent, correct that problem in this country as it has it the others.
ReplyDeleteDespite the data I have shown you, you nonetheless take it as an article of faith that we can't do it in this country. We'll see. The only thing that will convince you is 2025 arriving and 90%+ of Americans having healthcare. I am sure you won't bet on that proposition, either!
>Those 5% will still consume 65% of medical services, it will just cost taxpayers more.
Just getting uninsured people insured will go a long way toward resolving this problem. Furthermore, there are many provisions of ACA that will provide better managed care for these people. Getting a handle on this problem is the crux of reducing our healthcare costs.
--David
We went to a meeting today with other producers who have gone to other meetings. The bottom line is that anything we know today, might and probably will be wrong tomorrow. Things are in a constant flux and one cannot depend on information from yesterday no less from a year or two ago.
DeleteThe reports you have presented were done before HHS had written any of the regulations and requirements, so they are outdated and probably wrong on many assumptions.
Okay, here ya go. After considerable research, I found a definitive study (from Commonwealth Fund) that shows quantitatively how many poor people would NOT be able to afford health insurance under the ACA.
ReplyDeleteTheir conclusion…
"The implications of the analysis are clear. The overwhelming majority of households have room in their budgets for necessities, health insurance premiums, and moderate levels of out-of-pocket costs. Fewer than 10 percent of families above the federal poverty level do not have room in their budgets for premiums and typical out-of-pocket costs, after paying for necessities."
Go here….
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:2c8hdLgatTcJ:www.commonwealthfund.org/~/media/Files/Publications/Issue%2520Brief/2011/Apr/1493_Gruber_will_affordable_care_act_make_hlt_ins_affordable_reform_brief_v2.pdf+ACA+cost+of+healthcare+for+low-income&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESi6p_dGWwtulUoU5YvKfHKyloaEqoV3dYeBUdgxVthjbmyZ8SpwsGPy73aQH77srRIIls5otJxFxNhCJRC39iy0j6lCOze8grhNR_zjsioJF7zgJZM5r8foLtmKz0JmLGfwCqSf&sig=AHIEtbQSKpNAL7Xm8OVLYmxVyVKzQLYjxw
Look at Exhibit 11. Please comment. Is your mind open enough to accept new information?
--David
Of course his data shows that, the Gruber is the creator of MassCare and ObamaCrapCare. If you will look at the following article, you will see more about the author of ObamaCare.
ReplyDeletehttp://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/profile-gruber-economics-mr-mandate-1029.html
David, biased sources are never what people need. Unbiased ones are the best.
In the article Gruber says (paraphrased) that only 12% of seniors chose the best plan for themselves in Medicare D--the drug plan for seniors. They are going to be using the same bad programming for ObamaCrapCare. So how are people supposed to choose correctly?
By the way, you should be very happy that within ten years ObamaCrapCare will morph into a Federal plan. The Feds do such a great job running the trains and delivering the mail, I can't wait to see how they do with FedHEalth.
Another benefit for those who hate the system, there will be few agents available to help people understand the program. You will have to go it alone or go to a Navigator (an unlicensed and non-insurance company person) who will explain the differences in the plan. They will be extensively trained (two weeks) and will be answer all of your questions. They might even be as accomplished as the IRS information line where the results showed they answer questions correctly about 25% of the time. Oh yes, it is going to be fun!
The methodology is clear enough that any "bias" would be detectable. The inputs into the formula are all from public sources. Anyway, here is another analysis the similarly concludes that premium costs for low-income households will be well under 10% of their income (i.e., affordable)...
ReplyDeletehttp://101.communitycatalyst.org/aca_provisions/subsidies
--David
Have you ever been around people who are in this low income strata. They would rather go to McDonalds, buy beer, buy a new car than go to the doctor. Only when it becomes really bad will they go to the doctor.
ReplyDeleteYou have lived in the suburbs too long and are thinking like a middle market to upper class man, not a poor person. The thinking is completely different.
The premium might be affordable, but the people have to want to AFFORD it. That is a personal choice and unless visits are required, they will not happen.
Go to any emergency room and look around. You will see plenty of poor people. When they get sick, they go to the emergency room, not McDonald's. However, since they have no insurance, many wait until they are in pain before they go. By then, they may have a very serious infection, cancer, etc. than requires hospitalization, expensive treatments, etc. This is one of the main reasons why our per capita healthcare costs are double other OECD countries that have universal health care and even poor people have coverage.
ReplyDelete--David
P.S. You make a lot of assumptions about me that are wrong. I live in a rural area and have worked with poor people for the last 10 years as a CASA volunteer.