We have not seen any of the real effects of ObamaCare (we delicately call it ObamaFraudCare) yet we are starting to see the costs of setting up the exchanges which will be the first step into fully implementing the law. In the following article from Investors.com, we see some of the eye popping expenses and the already high costs associated with this boondoggle.
Yes, this is going to be a mess, a real disaster and when we come out the other side, we will dream of the days when we had the previous system, regardless of how many imperfections it had.
Conservative Tom
Here is the link: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-perspective/012913-642400-obamacare-insurance-exchanges-unpopular-with-states.htm?ven=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+EditorialRss+%28Editorial+RSS%29
Yes, this is going to be a mess, a real disaster and when we come out the other side, we will dream of the days when we had the previous system, regardless of how many imperfections it had.
Conservative Tom
Here is the link: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-perspective/012913-642400-obamacare-insurance-exchanges-unpopular-with-states.htm?ven=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+EditorialRss+%28Editorial+RSS%29
This guy writes, "Deductibles for all plans will be capped at $5,950 for individuals and $11,900 for families, with the limits adjusted over time for inflation. Such mandates prevent insurers from offering low-cost products that may best fit a family's budget."
ReplyDeleteIt is healthy, young folks who would want to go for the high deductible policy to save costs, and $5,950 is already at the high-end for deductibles in the private insurance market. Most young people have little savings, and so a one-time $6,000 out-of-pocket expense is a lot of money for them to come up with. The highest individual deductible I could find on the internet was $10,000, and the premium would not be much lower than for $6,000 deductible and not a prudent choice if you can't come up with the $10 grand!
--David
The highest deductible we know of is $20,000, however, when you read what we are going to pay for health insurance in 2016, according to the IRS, me thinks you will change your opinion on ObamaCrapCare.
ReplyDeleteLater today, I will be posting a new article on the cost. It is not pretty.
I would think not many people would be in the market for a $20k deductible. You would need to be a gambler or a guy with plenty of money to cover it, if you lose the gamble. But as I understand it, you can still buy this kind of policy if you want it.
ReplyDelete--David
Today, the high deductible policy is available, however, with Obamacare, it will no longer be. And with the cost of the cheapest policy (Bronze) that is offerred by Obamacare to run an individual $20,000 per year according to the IRS, how many people will be able to afford this coverage or if they can, will they want to?
ReplyDeleteObamaCrapCare will be the ruination of america.
Well, that is not entirely true. If you already have the policy at the time the exchanges begin, you can keep it under ACA. My point is that there is a small market for a policy with a $20K deductible. You either have to have a lot of cash on-hand, or else be a gambler to want this high of a deductible.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be fixated on the $20,000 number of a family of 5. I guess that's because it is a nice big number. Most Americans are not living in a home with 5 people. Many of the 32 million newly insured will be young people who previously had no insurance at all. They can buy the Bronze plan for just $70-$130 month. And before you tell me my numbers are "way off"...
http://truecostblog.com/2012/08/07/how-much-will-insurance-cost-under-obamacare/
The other point, which you originally disputed until I proved it with numbers from CBO, Kaiser, IRS, is that a policy for 4 ALREADY costs about $16,000 and with insurance companies continuing to jack up premiums every year, could easily get to $20,000 by 2016. This is simply the CURRENT trajectory of this policy, and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with Obamacare. The premiums are set by the INSURANCE CORPORATIONS, not the government. If you think the premiums are too high, blame the insurance companies. They set the premiums at whatever level they want to generate their 250% profit increase since 2002. I will keep repeating this until you admit that it is true.
--David
I'd love you hear how you blame Obamacare for this graph…
ReplyDeletehttp://facts.kff.org/chart.aspx?ch=1182
Obamacare didn't even exist 1999-2009 during which time the insurance companies jacked up the premiums for family coverage by 131% and worker contribution increased by 128%.
--David
Yup, that is the truth. Costs have been rising dramatically. Federal government became involved with health care in the 1980's. It is the way all programs go when they get out of the private sector and move into government.u
ReplyDeleteThis guy describes the history of health insurance in the U.S. back to the 1920s. His view, which I agree, is that the system didn't start deteriorating until after the industry was transformed from non-profit to for-profit. When the focus shifted toward maximizing profits instead of providing for public heath, the results were predictable.
ReplyDeleteHe concludes,
"The next time someone comes to you and tells you that we need to preserve the for-profit aspect of the health insurance system, ask them if they'd take that offer from their brother-in-law or the bank. Then, remind them that health insurance in this country didn’t spin completely out of control until the for-profit model took over. Ask them to explain such coincidence."
http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2009/09/the-absurdity-of-preserving-profit-in-the-health-insurance-industry.html
So, there you go, Tom. Explain the coincidence.
--David
David, the biggest health insurance company in Michigan is----ready?? Blue Cross a non profit! They have 50% of the market and are the market leader for coverage here in the State. In SE Michigan they have 70% of the market.
ReplyDeleteFrom his statements, the author has NO knowledge of the industry except maybe reading a book about health insurance. For example, his explanation of his brother in law and $18000 is ridiculous. In one accident or illness the $18000 plus 30 years of $18,000 payments could be wiped out. Insurance only works when there are large numbers of people. The example is stupid and only illustrates someone who knows nothing but is pretending to know something.
Additionally saying that profit is a bad thing is stupid. In this country there are few non-profit organizations and most like Apple and others make handsome profits. Why is profit-making wrong when it comes to health care?
Lastly, in the State of Michigan and the other 49 states, an insurance company must file its rates with the Insurance Commissioner which can approve or deny such rates. This include the non-profit Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan. Government has been in control of rates for years and the companies have not been able to make up their rates and charge anyone whatever they wanted.
One final point, in the State of Michigan prior to ObamaCrapCare, Blue Cross HAD TO accept any person who wanted insurance regardless of their
health issues. They could not deny them and the rates were the SAME as anyone else's. In Colorado they had a similar program.
I had a client who was an insured under Golden Rule--a United Health company. She came down with a lymphoma. The company DID NOT cancel her but paid her claims without any problem. Costs were in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. She still has the coverage and her cancer was over 3 years ago.
We have found that the people who were getting their health insurance cancelled were those who LIED on their application and left off health issues that would have PREVENTED them from getting the coverage in the first place.
David, you have a problem with "liar loans", we have a problem with liars on health apps. If you lie and deceive, you should not get the coverage. However, most people have been conditioned to not investigate the issue and believe the political spin.
"The best private health care plans in the United States are run by nonprofit organizations, according to the latest survey published in the November issue of Consumer Reports.
ReplyDeleteWithout shareholder concerns and other investor-related issues, nonprofit health care companies can better focus on their mission to provide care itself, said Dr. John Santa, director of the Consumer Reports Health Ratings Center. "Investors have an expectation of getting a return and resources have to be devoted to that, and that creates a different culture," Santa said."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/best-health-care-brands-are-nonprofit_n_1910733.html
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Health insurance should not be a for-profit business. The profit motive creates perverse incentives for these companies. The guy is fundamentally correct on that point. It is why the U.S. spends more on health care as percentage of GDP than any country in world, but still has 40 million uninsured. Other countries have universal health care and better population health statistics at half the per capita costs. Obamacare will not put these companies out of business as you predict. That is unfortunate.
--David
David, the vast majority of these "top plans" are HMOs. I, for one, would not want to have coverage with them. The effort to keep income makes your "gatekeeper" physician not make referrals but rather treat you himself. If you have to wait until he decides that you have cancer and have to see a specialist, it might be too late.
ReplyDeleteOf the top 10, only 1 was a PPO, which is heads and shoulders ahead of any HMO that I have seen.
If you are a nonprofit, you are more interested in patient care than profit. The reverse is true if you are a for-profit outfit. You are more interested in profit maximization than patient care. That is why, as the survey showed, the best private health care plans in the United States are run by nonprofit organizations.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to hear you try to defend this...
"With the economy struggling so mightily, conventional wisdom might suggest we are all feeling the pinch. But the five largest health insurance companies -- WellPoint, UnitedHealth, Aetna, Humana, and Cigna -- which, combine to cover 100 million Americans, are doing just fine. Between April and June 2011, they earned over $3.3 billion in profits, up 13 percent from their 2nd quarter profits in 2010, which, incidentally, was their most profitable year ever.
It’s no surprise these enormous earnings are not going towards improving access to health care for the families they cover. Instead, they go towards protecting the narrow self-interests of their stockholders, board members, and top executives. WellPoint alone spent $67 million on lobbying over the last 3 years and paid their CEO, Angela Braly, $13 million in 2010. They also spent $21.6 billion dollars of patient premiums to buy back its own stock from 2003 through 2010, pushing the price of the stock options their executives and board members own still higher. The transfer of wealth from individuals and employers to the Wall Street elite is staggering."
http://www.drsforamerica.org/blog/the-cost-of-for-profit-health-care#.URWba8yRg8g
--David
David, you need to pick sources better than the liberal ones and one that is more balanced.
ReplyDeleteDoctors for america.org is not a good source as they were promoting obamacrapcare and their opinions are therefore biased.
You can independently verify all the facts stated in that quote. It is not an opinion of the source, it is facts on public documents. Do you want me to track down these numbers from public records? Give me a couple hours, and I can do it.
ReplyDelete--David
P.S. Nearly every medical professional association in the U.S. from AMA on down the line endorses the ACA, not because they are "biased", but because they know it is needed.
Your P.S. is inaccurate. If it was true, 34% of doctors would NOT be retiring. The facts are in their actions and not the political hacks like the AMA which represents an insignificant portion of doctors.
ReplyDeleteRead the following, it is more clear than I could ever make it. http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottatlas/2012/10/11/what-do-actual-doctors-think-about-obamacare-now/