TRANSCRIPT: Gun Control at the First Democratic Debate

By Nick Leghorn on October 13, 2015

Tonight marks the first debate for the Democratic primary race for president of the United States.
One of the very first topics discussed was the issue of gun control, and not surprisingly every
 single person on the stage believed that further restrictions on the rights of American citizens
 is the only acceptable solution. The following is the full transcript of that section of the debate,
but first a couple notes . . .
Bernie Sanders presented a somewhat pragmatic approach, and argued that gun dealers shouldn’t
be held liable for crimes committed with a legally purchased firearm. Hillary Clinton
immediately pounced on that answer, demanding that gun dealers be held liable for the
actions of their customers.
Martin O’Malley tried to use his passage of gun control laws in Maryland to prove his
anti-gun bona fides, and pointed to the case of the blatantly frivolous lawsuit against
 Lucky Gunner as proof that the evil NRA has hijacked the legal system. And as always,
something must be done.
Lincoln Chaffee basically blamed the NRA for all of the ills of the world and didn’t go
much further, but it doesn’t really matter because it was Lincoln Chaffee. Finally, Jim
Webb came across as the least insane human on the stage by going out on a limb and
stating we need to keep guns out of the hands of bad people.
Minutes later, Moms Demand Action (a wholly owned subsidiary of Michael Bloomberg’s
Everytown for Gun Safety) issued a statement proclaiming victory because gun control w
as mentioned during the debate.
The following is a full transcript of that section of the debate, courtesy of WaPo:
======================
COOPER: […] Let’s move on to some of the most pressing issues facing our country right now,
some of the biggest issues right now in the headlines today. We’re going to start with guns.
The shooting in Oregon earlier this month, once again it brought the issue of guns into the
national conversation. Over the last week, guns have been the most discussed political topic
on Facebook by two to one.
Senator Sanders, you voted against the Brady bill that mandated background checks and
a waiting period. You also supported allowing riders to bring guns in checked bags on
 Amtrak trains. For a decade, you said that holding gun manufacturers legally responsible
for mass shootings is a bad idea. Now, you say you’re reconsidering that. Which is it:
 shield the gun companies from lawsuits or not?
SANDERS: Let’s begin, Anderson, by understanding that Bernie Sanders has a D-minus
 voting rating (ph) from the NRA. Let’s also understand that back in 1988 when I first ran
for the United States Congress, way back then, I told the gun owners of the state of
Vermont and I told the people of the state of Vermont, a state which has virtually no gun
control, that I supported a ban on assault weapons. And over the years, I have strongly
 avoided instant background checks, doing away with this terrible gun show loophole.
 And I think we’ve got to move aggressively at the federal level in dealing with the
 straw man purchasers.
Also I believe, and I’ve fought for, to understand that there are thousands of people in
 this country today who are suicidal, who are homicidal, but can’t get the healthcare that
they need, the mental healthcare, because they don’t have insurance or they’re too poor.
 I believe that everybody in this country who has a mental crisis has got to get mental
 health counseling immediately.
COOPER: Do you want to shield gun companies from lawsuits?
SANDERS: Of course not. This was a large and complicated bill. There were provisions
 in it that I think made sense. For example, do I think that a gun shop in the state of
Vermont that sells legally a gun to somebody, and that somebody goes out and does
something crazy, that that gun shop owner should be held responsible? I don’t.
On the other hand, where you have manufacturers and where you have gun shops
 knowingly giving guns to criminals or aiding and abetting that, of course we should take action.
COOPER: Secretary Clinton, is Bernie Sanders tough enough on guns?
CLINTON: No, not at all. I think that we have to look at the fact that we lose 90
people a day from gun violence. This has gone on too long and it’s time the entire
 country stood up against the NRA. The majority of our country…
(APPLAUSE)
… supports background checks, and even the majority of gun owners do.
Senator Sanders did vote five times against the Brady bill. Since it was passed,
more than 2 million prohibited purchases have been prevented. He also did vote,
as he said, for this immunity provision. I voted against it. I was in the Senate at the
same time. It wasn’t that complicated to me. It was pretty straightforward to me that
 he was going to give immunity to the only industry in America. Everybody else
has to be accountable, but not the gun manufacturers. And we need to stand up and
say: Enough of that. We’re not going to let it continue.
(APPLAUSE)
COOPER: We’re going to bring you all in on this. But, Senator Sanders, you have
to give a response.
SANDERS: As a senator from a rural state, what I can tell Secretary Clinton, that
all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want, and
 that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and
end this horrible violence that we are seeing.
I believe that there is a consensus in this country. A consensus has said we need to
strengthen and expand instant background checks, do away with this gun show
loophole, that we have to address the issue of mental health, that we have to deal
with the strawman purchasing issue, and that when we develop that consensus,
we can finally, finally do something to address this issue.
COOPER: Governor O’Malley, you passed gun legislation as governor of Maryland,
 but you had a Democratic-controlled legislature. President Obama couldn’t convince
 Congress to pass gun legislation after the massacres in Aurora, in Newtown, and
 Charleston. How can you?
O’MALLEY: And, Anderson, I also had to overcome a lot of opposition in the
 leadership of my own party to get this done. Look, it’s fine to talk about all of
these things — and I’m glad we’re talking about these things — but I’ve actually
done them.
We passed comprehensive gun safety legislation, not by looking at the pollings or
looking at what the polls said. We actually did it. And, Anderson, here tonight in
our audience are two people that make this issue very, very real. Sandy and Lonnie
Phillips are here from Colorado. And their daughter, Jessie, was one of those who
lost their lives in that awful mass shooting in Aurora.
Now, to try to transform their grief, they went to court, where sometimes progress does
 happen when you file in court, but in this case, you want to talk about a —
 a rigged game, Senator? The game was rigged. A man had sold 4,000 rounds
of military ammunition to this — this person that killed their daughter, riddled
her body with five bullets, and he didn’t even ask where it was going.
And not only did their case get thrown out of court, they were slapped
with $200,000 in court fees because of the way that the NRA gets its way in our
Congress and we take a backseat. It’s time to stand up and pass comprehensive
 gun safety legislation as a nation.
(APPLAUSE)
COOPER: Senator Sanders, I want you to be able to respond, 30 seconds.
SANDERS: I think the governor gave a very good example about the weaknesses
in that law and I think we have to take another look at it. But here is the point
, Governor. We can raise our voices, but I come from a rural state, and the views
on gun control in rural states are different than in urban states, whether we like it or not.
Our job is to bring people together around strong, commonsense gun legislation.
 I think there is a vast majority in this country who want to do the right thing, and
I intend to lead the country in bringing our people together.
O’MALLEY: Senator — Senator, excuse me.
(CROSSTALK)
O’MALLEY: Senator, it is not about rural — Senator, it was not about rural and urban.
SANDERS: It’s exactly about rural.
O’MALLEY: Have you ever been to the Eastern Shore? Have you ever been to
Western Maryland? We were able to pass this and still respect the hunting traditions
of people who live in our rural areas.
SANDERS: Governor…
O’MALLEY: And we did it by leading with principle, not by pandering to the
 NRA and backing down to the NRA.
SANDERS: Well, as somebody who has a D-minus voting record…
(CROSSTALK)
O’MALLEY: And I have an F from the NRA, Senator.
SANDERS: I don’t think I am pandering. But you have not been in the United
States Congress.
O’MALLEY: Well, maybe that’s a healthy thing.
(LAUGHTER)
SANDERS: And when you want to, check it out. And if you think — if you
think that we can simply
go forward and pass something tomorrow without bringing people together,
you are sorely mistaken.
COOPER: Let me bring in somebody who has a different viewpoint. Senator
Webb, your rating from
 the NRA, you once had an A rating from the NRA. You’ve said gun violence
goes down when more
people are allowed to carry guns. Would encouraging more people to be armed
be part of your
response to a mass shooting?
WEBB: Look, there are two fundamental issues that are involved in this discussion.
We need to
pay respect to both of them. The first is the issue of who should be kept from
 having guns and
using firearms. And we have done not a good job on that.
A lot of them are criminals. And a lot of the people are getting killed are
 members of gangs
 inside our urban areas. And a lot of them are mentally incapacitated. And
the shooting in
 Virginia Tech in ’07, this individual had received medical care for mental
illness from three
different professionals who were not allowed to share the information.
WEBB: So we do need background checks. We need to keep the people who
should not have
 guns away from them. But we have to respect the tradition in this country
 of people who want
to defend themselves and their family from violence.
COOPER: Senator…
WEBB: May I? People are going back and forth here for 10 minutes here.
There are people at
high levels in this government who have bodyguards 24 hours a day,
seven days a week. The
average American does not have that, and deserves the right to be able to
protect their family.
COOPER: Senator — Governor Chafee, you have an F rating from the NRA,
 what do you think
about what Senator Webb just said?
CHAFEE: Yes, I have a good record of voting for gun commonsense
safety legislation, but
the reality is, despite these tragedies that happen time and time again,
 when legislators step up
 to pass commonsense gun safety legislation, the gun lobby moves in
and tells the people'
 they’re coming to take away your guns.
And, they’re successful at it, in Colorado and others states, the
legislators that vote for
 commonsense gun safety measures then get defeated. I even saw in
Rhode Island. So,
I would bring the gun lobby in and say we’ve got to change this.
Where can we find
common ground? Wayne Lapierre from the NRA, whoever it is, the leaders.
Come one,
 we’ve go to change this. We’re not coming to take away your guns, we
 believe in the
 Second Amendment, but let’s find common ground here.
COOPER: I want to…
O’MALLEY: …Anderson, when the NRA wrote to everyone in our state —
when the
NRA wrote to members in our state and told people with hunting traditions lies about
what our comprehensive gun safety legislation is, I wrote right back to them and laid
out what it actually did. And that’s why, not only did we pass it, but the NRA didn’t…
SANDERS: …Excuse me…
O’MALLEY: …dare to petition a referendum…
SANDERS: …I want to make…
O’MALLEY: …Because we built a public consensus…