While we agree that both the passenger, the flight crew, United and the airport officers made mistakes, we believe there is a bigger issue that needs to be discussed and one that we have not seen anywhere?
How much freedom are we willing to give up to be "safe"? Of course, safe has its own different connotation to everyone? Do we not want to sit by someone with whom we disagree as happened a few months ago by a lady who did not want to sit next to a Trump supporter and made her opinion out loud before being removed from the plane.
Do we want there be 100% sure that nothing will go wrong with the plane, the pilot or the trip we are about to embark upon? That is not possible.
Do we not want to be blown up? If not, are we willing to lose all our rights of speech, movement and opinion by giving those right to be safe?
While we don't believe it was right to forcibly remove the passenger who had a legitimate reason not to be forced to leave the plane (he had to see patients in the morning), he also was not right in fighting with the security.
United was wrong in that they did not find another way to defuse the incident. Could they have put their employees on another plane, another carrier or shipped them down to Louisville by limo or just paid a higher bounty to get someone to give up their seat?
The security guards should not have manhandled this older man. What would have been the result if he had had a stroke, a heart attack?
However, the outcome of the incident is even worse. Airline employees and airport security believe they can force the passengers to do anything that they desire because they are in a secure, "sterile" area. You, as a passenger, give up all your rights.
A few years ago in a snowstorm in Detroit, passengers were forced to stay in their seats by airline personnel even though the plane was stuck at the gate or on the tarmack. The rule is that once the plane is ready to leave the gate, all customers must be belted. Those are the rules. Common sense makes no difference, the darn plane was not moving. You either comply or you will be arrested.
Your rights end at the curb check in. After that you must comply with ANY airport or airline employee or you go to jail. This is as close to a gulag or concentration camp as it is. Are you comfortable with this situation?
We used to be excited to fly. The airport was always a place that meant going somewhere wonderful. Now it a place of dread. You have to take off your shoes, submit to either an actual or virtual search, you dare not joke with anyone (Hi Jack!!), take off that offending belt even though your pants might fall down, put all your money, wallets and other items in your pockets in a tray and worst of all, if you get called out for "special treatment" you have all your carry-ons searched as if they knew you were the next shoe bomber.
We have always wondered why 80 year old women, 5 year old boys are searched yet, the real potential bombers are young men! That makes no sense except the powers to be want it to feel random and that they are not "profiling" anyone. We disagree, profiling will subject those who are more likely to do the dastardly deed, to be screened therefore putting the emphasis on the minority that are likely do cause the problem.
However, we will not do anything but comply and ignore the obvious loss of rights and keep on moving like sheep moving to the slaughter. This is how free men become slaves, one step at a time.
The United "deplaning" issue is not an outlier, rather it is a symptom of a bad situation getting significantly worse.
Conservative Tom
P.S. One last question to ponder--why did not some other passenger speak up and tell the cops to stop? Answer: they were afraid they would be arrested! So much for freedom of speech!
How much freedom are we willing to give up to be "safe"? Of course, safe has its own different connotation to everyone? Do we not want to sit by someone with whom we disagree as happened a few months ago by a lady who did not want to sit next to a Trump supporter and made her opinion out loud before being removed from the plane.
Do we want there be 100% sure that nothing will go wrong with the plane, the pilot or the trip we are about to embark upon? That is not possible.
Do we not want to be blown up? If not, are we willing to lose all our rights of speech, movement and opinion by giving those right to be safe?
While we don't believe it was right to forcibly remove the passenger who had a legitimate reason not to be forced to leave the plane (he had to see patients in the morning), he also was not right in fighting with the security.
United was wrong in that they did not find another way to defuse the incident. Could they have put their employees on another plane, another carrier or shipped them down to Louisville by limo or just paid a higher bounty to get someone to give up their seat?
The security guards should not have manhandled this older man. What would have been the result if he had had a stroke, a heart attack?
However, the outcome of the incident is even worse. Airline employees and airport security believe they can force the passengers to do anything that they desire because they are in a secure, "sterile" area. You, as a passenger, give up all your rights.
A few years ago in a snowstorm in Detroit, passengers were forced to stay in their seats by airline personnel even though the plane was stuck at the gate or on the tarmack. The rule is that once the plane is ready to leave the gate, all customers must be belted. Those are the rules. Common sense makes no difference, the darn plane was not moving. You either comply or you will be arrested.
Your rights end at the curb check in. After that you must comply with ANY airport or airline employee or you go to jail. This is as close to a gulag or concentration camp as it is. Are you comfortable with this situation?
We used to be excited to fly. The airport was always a place that meant going somewhere wonderful. Now it a place of dread. You have to take off your shoes, submit to either an actual or virtual search, you dare not joke with anyone (Hi Jack!!), take off that offending belt even though your pants might fall down, put all your money, wallets and other items in your pockets in a tray and worst of all, if you get called out for "special treatment" you have all your carry-ons searched as if they knew you were the next shoe bomber.
We have always wondered why 80 year old women, 5 year old boys are searched yet, the real potential bombers are young men! That makes no sense except the powers to be want it to feel random and that they are not "profiling" anyone. We disagree, profiling will subject those who are more likely to do the dastardly deed, to be screened therefore putting the emphasis on the minority that are likely do cause the problem.
However, we will not do anything but comply and ignore the obvious loss of rights and keep on moving like sheep moving to the slaughter. This is how free men become slaves, one step at a time.
The United "deplaning" issue is not an outlier, rather it is a symptom of a bad situation getting significantly worse.
Conservative Tom
P.S. One last question to ponder--why did not some other passenger speak up and tell the cops to stop? Answer: they were afraid they would be arrested! So much for freedom of speech!
I Know You’re Mad at United but… (Thoughts from a Pilot Wife About Flight 3411)
I Know You’re Mad at United but… (Thoughts from a Pilot
Wife About Flight 3411)
If there’s one thing I have learned over the years, it’s that there are always two sides to every story.
On April 9th, a very unfortunate incident played out on United Flight
3411, the video of which has since gone viral causing a mass social
media uprising with an ‘off-with-their-heads’ mentality. I mean,
across the board. Fire ’em all and let the gods sort it out later.
3411, the video of which has since gone viral causing a mass social
media uprising with an ‘off-with-their-heads’ mentality. I mean,
across the board. Fire ’em all and let the gods sort it out later.
Look, I get it. When I first saw the video I was appalled too. To say
that it was inflammatory would be putting it mildly. But it was also
a situation that was escalated far beyond the boundaries of necessity.
that it was inflammatory would be putting it mildly. But it was also
a situation that was escalated far beyond the boundaries of necessity.
If a federal law enforcement officer asks me to exit a plane, no
matter how royally pissed off I am, I’m going to do it and then
seek other means of legal reimbursement. True story.
matter how royally pissed off I am, I’m going to do it and then
seek other means of legal reimbursement. True story.
Knowing what I know about airport security, I’m certainly not
going to run back into a secured, federally restricted area at an
airport flailing my arms and screaming like a banshee…because,
you know, that just happens to be breaking a major federal
Homeland Security law.
going to run back into a secured, federally restricted area at an
airport flailing my arms and screaming like a banshee…because,
you know, that just happens to be breaking a major federal
Homeland Security law.
But that’s just me. Obviously.
The moment I made that particular ill-advised choice, I would
become an immediate and imminent threat to the aircraft’s
security. That’s kind of a big deal. I mean, come on, I once actually
had to remove my infant son’s socks because they mimicked little
baby sneakers. These guys mean business.
become an immediate and imminent threat to the aircraft’s
security. That’s kind of a big deal. I mean, come on, I once actually
had to remove my infant son’s socks because they mimicked little
baby sneakers. These guys mean business.
I didn’t like it. I thought it was just plain stupid, honestly. But
instead of pitching a massive fit, refusing to comply, and bolting
through the TSA checkpoint like an out-of-control toddler, I did
the big girl thing–sucked it up, removed the offensive socks, and
went on with my happy life, sans being tackled and dragged
through the airport in handcuffs by a bunch of big men with guns.
instead of pitching a massive fit, refusing to comply, and bolting
through the TSA checkpoint like an out-of-control toddler, I did
the big girl thing–sucked it up, removed the offensive socks, and
went on with my happy life, sans being tackled and dragged
through the airport in handcuffs by a bunch of big men with guns.
Because if you choose to take advantage of the services the airport provides, you play by their rules.
I know you’re all out there screaming that the ‘rules’ are unfair,
but I am a pilot wife. I remember 9/11. Do you? I want my husband,
the father of my children, to come home. I want you to get home.
That law exists to protect my husband. And your wife. And your
grandmother. And your child. And you. I, for one, am glad for the
law.
but I am a pilot wife. I remember 9/11. Do you? I want my husband,
the father of my children, to come home. I want you to get home.
That law exists to protect my husband. And your wife. And your
grandmother. And your child. And you. I, for one, am glad for the
law.
I’m not here to dispute the facts of 3411 with you. I am not interested
in getting into an argument of opinion with anyone. We’re all
entitled to our own. I’m not arguing that what happened wasn’t
completely terrible–it was, on multiple levels. But I am suggesting
that the general public take another look at the situation, ask a
few more questions, gather a few more facts, and then create a
less hostile and more intellectually wrought opinion about what
happened.
in getting into an argument of opinion with anyone. We’re all
entitled to our own. I’m not arguing that what happened wasn’t
completely terrible–it was, on multiple levels. But I am suggesting
that the general public take another look at the situation, ask a
few more questions, gather a few more facts, and then create a
less hostile and more intellectually wrought opinion about what
happened.
Because the media is giving you just enough information to keep
you enraged–enough to keep their ratings up.
you enraged–enough to keep their ratings up.
Things to consider:
1) “You can’t just kick a paying customer off the plane!”
Psssst! It’s in the fine print. They can, indeed, do just that. And it’s
not an airline specific rule, it’s a commercial aviation rule. Every
ticket you purchase comes with a plethora of fine print–you know,
the stuff we just click ‘next’ on without actually reading what we are
agreeing to. Yeah, that. Well, it’s in there, and you checked the ‘I
agree’ box when you purchased your ticket. You can read about it
and oh-so-much-more here. Kind of makes you want to read all
those tiny words on your next phone update before you click ‘I
agree’, huh? You should. United did not break any law, and he
agreed to the policy and possibility of involuntary bump when he
bought his ticket. And so do you.
Psssst! It’s in the fine print. They can, indeed, do just that. And it’s
not an airline specific rule, it’s a commercial aviation rule. Every
ticket you purchase comes with a plethora of fine print–you know,
the stuff we just click ‘next’ on without actually reading what we are
agreeing to. Yeah, that. Well, it’s in there, and you checked the ‘I
agree’ box when you purchased your ticket. You can read about it
and oh-so-much-more here. Kind of makes you want to read all
those tiny words on your next phone update before you click ‘I
agree’, huh? You should. United did not break any law, and he
agreed to the policy and possibility of involuntary bump when he
bought his ticket. And so do you.
2) “Kicking a paying customer off an airplane!? I’m
taking my business to Southwest!” Ummmm, okay. But
just be sure you understand that every major airline, Southwest
included, has a similar policy for involuntary bumping in a ‘must
ride’ scenario. Don’t believe me? It’s called the contract of carriage.
If you’re really bored, you can read Southwest’s here. Or Delta’s
here. Believe me, it’s in there. This could have been any airline.
In fact, it happens all the time. Most people just don’t wrestle the
feds in the aisle.
taking my business to Southwest!” Ummmm, okay. But
just be sure you understand that every major airline, Southwest
included, has a similar policy for involuntary bumping in a ‘must
ride’ scenario. Don’t believe me? It’s called the contract of carriage.
If you’re really bored, you can read Southwest’s here. Or Delta’s
here. Believe me, it’s in there. This could have been any airline.
In fact, it happens all the time. Most people just don’t wrestle the
feds in the aisle.
3: “So what’s this ‘must ride’ nonsense anyway? They
shouldn’t bump a paying customer for a free employee ride!” I’m afraid you’re going to have to take this up with the
federal government, not United. And it’s actually pretty important
to you as an airline traveler anyway. They were not ‘freeloading
home’. That’s called non-rev and they have to wait in line behind
your checkbook and often don’t make it home to their families
if flights are booked (believe me, I know). No, this was a must fly,
a positive space situation. In layman terms, it means that a crew
must be flown to an airport to man a flight in order to avoid
cancellation of said flight due to crew unavailability. This is a
federal DOT regulation, not an airline one. The airlines are
required to do so to avoid disruption of air traffic. In other words,
if there are no willing volunteers and they need seats to get a crew somewhere to avoid disruption of aviation flow, they can, will,
must by federal regulation bump people for the better good of the
1000’s. Why? Because one cancelled flight has a serious domino
affect in the delicate, complicated world of connections and
aviation law.
shouldn’t bump a paying customer for a free employee ride!” I’m afraid you’re going to have to take this up with the
federal government, not United. And it’s actually pretty important
to you as an airline traveler anyway. They were not ‘freeloading
home’. That’s called non-rev and they have to wait in line behind
your checkbook and often don’t make it home to their families
if flights are booked (believe me, I know). No, this was a must fly,
a positive space situation. In layman terms, it means that a crew
must be flown to an airport to man a flight in order to avoid
cancellation of said flight due to crew unavailability. This is a
federal DOT regulation, not an airline one. The airlines are
required to do so to avoid disruption of air traffic. In other words,
if there are no willing volunteers and they need seats to get a crew somewhere to avoid disruption of aviation flow, they can, will,
must by federal regulation bump people for the better good of the
1000’s. Why? Because one cancelled flight has a serious domino
affect in the delicate, complicated world of connections and
aviation law.
4: “It’s the airline’s fault for not planning better!” You
obviously have no clue about the complexities of aviation travel
and should do some research. There are about a million and
one things that can cause a crew shortage including but not limited
to weather, maintenance, weather, connecting fight delays,
weather, FAA timeout regs, and did I mention weather? I wish
I could control Mother Nature because I would be one filthy rich
person. But I can’t. And neither can United. So they inconvenience
one, or four, to keep hundreds on track. Do the math. And of
course, if we were on the other end of this thing, we’d be tirading
and blowing up the internet because United didn’t bump a
passenger to make sure our flight didn’t get cancelled and left
hundreds stranded. Damned if you do; damned if you don’t.
We’re a fickle crowd, we social media folks.
obviously have no clue about the complexities of aviation travel
and should do some research. There are about a million and
one things that can cause a crew shortage including but not limited
to weather, maintenance, weather, connecting fight delays,
weather, FAA timeout regs, and did I mention weather? I wish
I could control Mother Nature because I would be one filthy rich
person. But I can’t. And neither can United. So they inconvenience
one, or four, to keep hundreds on track. Do the math. And of
course, if we were on the other end of this thing, we’d be tirading
and blowing up the internet because United didn’t bump a
passenger to make sure our flight didn’t get cancelled and left
hundreds stranded. Damned if you do; damned if you don’t.
We’re a fickle crowd, we social media folks.
5: They shouldn’t have picked the minority Chinese
doctor! It’s racist.”That’s just silly. Though federal regulation
demands they involuntarily bump to prevent interruption of
flights when necessary, each airline does have the leniency to
determine how they choose the bumped passengers. They did
not play spin the bottle or walk down the aisle looking for the
Asian guy. Use your heads, people! There is a computerized
algorithm that takes into account price of ticket, how long ago
it was purchased, whether or not they can get the passenger
to their destination in a timely manner, etc. It wasn’t an ‘Asian
thing.’ Stop, people. Just stop.
doctor! It’s racist.”That’s just silly. Though federal regulation
demands they involuntarily bump to prevent interruption of
flights when necessary, each airline does have the leniency to
determine how they choose the bumped passengers. They did
not play spin the bottle or walk down the aisle looking for the
Asian guy. Use your heads, people! There is a computerized
algorithm that takes into account price of ticket, how long ago
it was purchased, whether or not they can get the passenger
to their destination in a timely manner, etc. It wasn’t an ‘Asian
thing.’ Stop, people. Just stop.
6: “United should go under for assaulting that
passenger! Fire the entire crew!” Read the facts. United neeeever touched the passenger. In fact, by all witness
accounts, the United flight crew remained calm and pleasant
throughout the entire event, never laying hands on the passenger.
They followed protocol as required by law. Once law enforcement
became involved (also as required by federal protocol), United
stepped out of the decision-making process. They had nothing
to do with the rest. The passenger was forcibly removed by
federal aviation security (the disturbing clip that everyone is
talking about) after running back into the secured area after
being escorted out once. Once he did that, like it or not, they
(law enforcement) were under full discretion of the law to apply
necessary force to remove the threat. I’m not saying it’s pretty,
but the only one who actually broke a law was the passenger.
There’s a reason for these laws–it’s called 9/11. We can’t have it
both ways. But by all means, let’s berate and punish an entire
flight crew–in fact thousands of pilots, FA’s, gate attendants,
ground crew, etc.–because it makes us all feel a little better.
passenger! Fire the entire crew!” Read the facts. United neeeever touched the passenger. In fact, by all witness
accounts, the United flight crew remained calm and pleasant
throughout the entire event, never laying hands on the passenger.
They followed protocol as required by law. Once law enforcement
became involved (also as required by federal protocol), United
stepped out of the decision-making process. They had nothing
to do with the rest. The passenger was forcibly removed by
federal aviation security (the disturbing clip that everyone is
talking about) after running back into the secured area after
being escorted out once. Once he did that, like it or not, they
(law enforcement) were under full discretion of the law to apply
necessary force to remove the threat. I’m not saying it’s pretty,
but the only one who actually broke a law was the passenger.
There’s a reason for these laws–it’s called 9/11. We can’t have it
both ways. But by all means, let’s berate and punish an entire
flight crew–in fact thousands of pilots, FA’s, gate attendants,
ground crew, etc.–because it makes us all feel a little better.
7: “You piece of **it!” I get that the passengers were upset,
angry, maybe even confused. I get that you are too. After all,
media is tossing you out chunks of bloody meat like you’re a
pack of starving wolves. But I’m seriously disgusted that the
poor must ride crew that had to take those seats after the
unfortunate mess that unraveled were verbally abused and
threatened. Can you imagine the very uncomfortable position
they were in? Then they were demeaned, belittled, threatened.
Along with many others all over the internet and airports today.
They were and are men and women doing their jobs to feed
their families. Just. Like. You. They didn’t have a choice.
They didn’t ask for this. They didn’t assault anyone. They
are not a corporation; they are individuals who need a job.
They are my friends and maybe even my husband. There’s a
very fine line between what you despise and becoming what
you despise. Many of the comments and actions I have seen
perpetrated against United employees cross it. Don’t become
what you hate.
angry, maybe even confused. I get that you are too. After all,
media is tossing you out chunks of bloody meat like you’re a
pack of starving wolves. But I’m seriously disgusted that the
poor must ride crew that had to take those seats after the
unfortunate mess that unraveled were verbally abused and
threatened. Can you imagine the very uncomfortable position
they were in? Then they were demeaned, belittled, threatened.
Along with many others all over the internet and airports today.
They were and are men and women doing their jobs to feed
their families. Just. Like. You. They didn’t have a choice.
They didn’t ask for this. They didn’t assault anyone. They
are not a corporation; they are individuals who need a job.
They are my friends and maybe even my husband. There’s a
very fine line between what you despise and becoming what
you despise. Many of the comments and actions I have seen
perpetrated against United employees cross it. Don’t become
what you hate.
Like I said, I know you’re mad at United, but there’s much
more to the story than hits the media fan.
more to the story than hits the media fan.
I truly hope that this gives you something to chew on and gives
you a smidgen more insight into the complexities of aviation.
I’m not making excuses. I think there were bad decisions made
on both sides. However, I am saying there are always two sides
to every story. Make sure you consider them both.
you a smidgen more insight into the complexities of aviation.
I’m not making excuses. I think there were bad decisions made
on both sides. However, I am saying there are always two sides
to every story. Make sure you consider them both.
Tailwinds.
***A correction to the previous article. Mr. Dao was indeed
Vietnamese and not Chinese. That quote was verbatim from
a comment off the internet. I apology profusely for the confusion.
Vietnamese and not Chinese. That quote was verbatim from
a comment off the internet. I apology profusely for the confusion.
Angelia (A Pilot Wife)
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